Discovering the Reality of God in Word and Spirit: an interview with R. T. Kendall

Dr. R. T. Kendall has been preaching for over sixty years. He has also personally experienced the power of the Holy Spirit. For twenty-five years he served as the pastor of Westminster Chapel in London. He is the author of many books and now ministers internationally. He is a strong advocate for bringing together in the church the exposition of the Word and the power of the Spirit.
An updated version of his book, Word and Spirit: Truth, Power, and the Next Great Move of God was released in October 2019.

 

PneumaReview.com: In Word & Spirit you have written about a great divorce in the church. Please tell our readers what you mean by that.

R. T. Kendall: I call it a silent divorce because nobody knows precisely when it occurred nor has it been officially announced – except that I have been saying it for nearly thirty years. That said, it is obvious that the evangelical wing of the church has been divided into two emphases – those who stress the Word – sound doctrine, historical Protestant theology and expository preaching, and those whose emphasis has been the gifts of the Spirit, signs and wonders and the need to be as the church was in the book of Acts. Both are exactly right. But it seems that nearly wherever I go in the world it is either one or the other. In the book of Acts they had both. But to find a church where both are truly carried out is exceedingly rare.

 

PneumaReview.com: What are some of the key factors that have contributed to this divorce?

R. T. Kendall: I don’t know for sure, but possibly because those who have assumed that signs and wonders ceased way back in the early church have espoused cessationism and have turned it into a dogma. If you believe in the gifts of the Spirit you are not very welcome in some churches. They are suspicious of those who uphold the possibility of signs and wonders today. I will say that this is not everywhere. In England the Charismatic Movement is mainstream; in America it is often regarded as the lunatic fringe. Cessationism has helped polarize these two movements. There should not be a divide, but there is. The word churches think they believe in the Holy Spirit because they are Trinitarian. The truth is, they believe in God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Bible. Many are fearful of the Holy Spirit. At the same time many (thankfully not all) have little or no deep theology. For example, a robust view of the sovereignty of God is largely absent.

 

PneumaReview.com: You have said that there is a lot of biblical illiteracy in the church, even among Evangelical and Charismatic Christians. What are some of the main reasons for this?

R. T. Kendall: It largely begins with doubting the infallibility of Holy Scripture. For one thing, it is very rare to find a theology department in a university where the infallibility of the Bible is upheld. The same is true with most seminaries today. I suspect the reason is much the same as the desire of ancient Israel; they wanted a king to be like other nations. Today theological teachers and professors want to be like the more respected universities such as Harvard, Yale, Oxford, Cambridge or some German universities. This is deadly. It is pride that leads to this. They want respectability; they cannot bear to be seen as upholding the inerrancy of the Bible lest they be scoffed and laughed at. I know what I am talking about. It happens that I was trained in Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville that was almost totally liberal at the time although they are sound today. It needs to be said also that some pastors have not been trained in university or seminary and don’t know their Bibles very well and the people consequently suffer from biblical illiteracy. There are exceptions. But not many, I fear.

 

PneumaReview.com: Please point out a few practical steps church leaders can take in order to address this deficiency?

R. T. Kendall: Backsliding begins in the knees. A solid relationship with God is the first step. John 7:17 – knowing the will of the Father – is the best beginning. People today don’t know their Bibles, neither do they read them. We have Bibles but don’t read them. In Luther’s day they did not have Bibles, but when they got them they devoured them and loved good preaching. Some pastors only turn to the Bible when they need a sermon. Every pastor and every church member needs a Bible reading plan – one that takes you through the entire Bible in a year. My own was introduced to me by Dr. Martyn Lloyd-Jones –the one designed by Robert Murray M’Cheyne. John Wesley prayed two hours a day. Martin Luther prayed two hours a day. The average church leader today prays four minutes a day. A close relationship with the Holy Spirit and a solid knowledge of the Bible will spare you of serious error.

 

PneumaReview.com: Why do some Charismatics not place much value on Bible study?

R. T. Kendall: It is because they have not been taught. Leadership from the pulpit can make a huge difference. People need leadership. We are living in a day when there is a dearth of strong theological leadership. People want and need good teaching, but it is hard to find.

 

PneumaReview.com: What counsel would you give to a Charismatic who does not engage in serious Bible study?

R. T. Kendall: I would urge him or her to begin now to have a Bible reading plan that takes them through the Bible in a year. If they cannot find a church that does not emphasize this, find a Bible study on line that is sound, solid, scriptural and Spirit honoring.

 

PneumaReview.com: The gifts and power of the Spirit are mentioned in the Bible yet some Evangelicals are not open to them. Why is that? 

R. T. Kendall: The fear of man is a snare. The teaching of cessationsism (the notion that the gifts of the Spirit ceased in the early church) is a comfortable and convenient way to avoid teaching them, not to mention seeking them. Earnestly desire the greater gifts, said Paul. But am I to believe that does not apply to me? Whatever is a new Christian to think when he or she has been converted and told to read the Bible – and then to learn that a great part of it is irrelevant today? Take a scissors and cut out what is not relevant today and you have a Bible in shreds. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever; so too is the Holy Spirit the same yesterday and today and forever!

 

PneumaReview.com: What would you say to a non-Charismatic in order to lead them toward embracing the contemporary charismatic work of the Spirit?

R. T. Kendall: Pray without all your heart to have a close relationship with the Holy Spirit. Then see what happens! Many have done this and came into the gifts of the Spirit not expecting this! It comes down to one thing: how close do you want to be to God? I myself came into these truths not seeking for the gifts but seeking more of God! And the consequence of this was discovering how real God is and how willing He is to be real to you.

 

PneumaReview.com: Are there things that can be done to help Word people and Spirit people stop talking past one another?

R. T. Kendall: It comes down to this: do you want the honor and praise that comes only from God? Or are you addicted to the praise of people? The reason the Pharisees missed their Messiah was this. Jesus uncovered their inability to believe in Him when he asked them, “How can you believe [in other words, you are unable to believe] when you make no attempt to receive the praise of God and do not seek the honor that comes from Him” (see John 5:44). I don’t mean to be unfair, but the reason for cessationsism today is the same reason the Jews missed Jesus. There are exceptions, but not many. May God raise up men and women who have a heart red-hot after the God of the Bible.

 

PneumaReview.com: What will be the fruit of a revival in which the Word and Spirit emphases come together equally?

R. T. Kendall: A return to the fear of God. There is no fear of God in the nation. There is no fear of God in the church. If you ask, Should people be afraid of God? YES. And when He comes in power they will fall on their faces. The first message of the New Testament was, “Who has warned you to flee – RUN – from the wrath of God” (Matthew 3:7). Why would they run from Him? One reason: they are afraid of what is coming. May God hasten the day when this happens again.

 

PR